Interview with Thomas Schwartz: What Is the State of the Church in Europe at the Beginning of the Pontificate of Leo XIV

“Despite the different challenges, we are united by the goal of proclaiming the Good News and strengthening people in their dignity. The division lies less in the mission itself and more in the ways it is carried out—and this is where dialogue between East and West is crucial,” Thomas Schwartz said in an interview for Bitno.net.

Rev. Thomas Schwartz is the Director of the German Catholic foundation Renovabis, which supports the Church in Central and Eastern Europe. In addition, Rev. Schwartz has served as a professor of business ethics at the University of Augsburg, was selected by Pope Francis to participate in the Synod on Synodality, and will soon receive an honorary doctorate from the Catholic University of Croatia. Owing to his rich and diverse life and priestly experience, this German priest is an ideal interlocutor for a discussion on the state of the Church in Europe at the beginning of the pontificate of Leo XIV.

– Reverend Schwartz, you come from a Western European country and are involved in supporting the Church in Central and Eastern Europe. Is there a gap between views on the mission of the Church today in these parts of Europe?

The mission of the Church in Central and Eastern Europe is shaped by different historical experiences, social developments, and political conditions. While in Western Europe the Church often faces secularisation and individualisation, in Central and Eastern Europe it still faces the task of once again becoming a vital part of civil society after decades of oppression under communist regimes. The challenges are quite different: in Poland and Croatia, for example, there are vibrant Catholic communities, whereas in countries such as Albania and the Czech Republic the Church must first rebuild trust and social relevance. Nevertheless, despite these differing challenges, we are united by the goal of proclaiming the Good News and strengthening people in their dignity. The division lies less in the mission itself and more in the ways it is carried out—and this is where dialogue between East and West is crucial.

– Germany is often seen as the country from which the greatest number of initiatives for change within the Church originate. Sometimes voices even suggest that the German Synodal Path could result in schism. How do you view the processes taking place in your country?

The Synodal Path in Germany is an expression of a deep search for renewal and credibility in the Church. Discussions about reform, power structures, and sexual morality are necessary in order to respond to the challenges of our time. Concerns about division must be taken seriously, because the unity of the Church is a precious gift. At the same time, we must not forget that processes of reform always create tensions. It is important to strive for dialogue with Rome and the universal Church and to understand diversity of opinion as a source of richness. The Church in Germany should not act as a teacher, but as part of the global community that is jointly seeking ways to live the Gospel credibly.

– People who are critical of Churches in the West, not only Germany, often say: Look, their churches are empty; this is the fruit of their attempt to “keep up with the world.” How would you respond to such criticism?

This criticism does not hold. Empty churches are not merely the result of adaptation to the world, but an expression of profound social change. Secularisation, individualisation, and the pluralisation of lifestyles pose new challenges for the Church—not only in Germany, but also in many countries of Central, Eastern, and South-Eastern Europe. Our task is to proclaim the message of the Gospel in a way that reaches people in their everyday reality. This does not mean adaptation at any cost, but creative and courageous inculturation of the faith. The Church must offer spaces of encounter, dialogue, and hope—especially at a time when many people are searching for meaning and orientation.

– Czech theologian Tomáš Halík told us that the greatest enemy of faith today is not unbelief, but idolatry, and that Jews, Christians, Muslims, and even atheists should unite in the fight against idols. Which idols are the most dangerous today?

Tomáš Halík is right in his analysis. The most dangerous idols of our time are power, money, and consumerism with all their promises, but also, in a particular way, new nationalism and the idealisation and ideologisation of identity. These lead to division, exclusion, and a narrowing of our perspective on what truly matters. Christians, Jews, Muslims, and even atheists are called to oppose these idols together and to strive for a society based on solidarity, justice, and peace. The Church must continually ask itself in a self-critical manner whether it, too, is in danger of serving such idols.

– You participated in the Synodal process at the level of the universal Church. Do you believe this process has borne fruit, or will we have to wait some time before the issues raised there are addressed more seriously?

The synodal process of the universal Church is an important step toward greater participation, transparency, and dialogue. The first fruits are visible: the Church is opening itself to the voices of the laity, women, and young people. There is a stronger emphasis on synodality, that is, shared decision-making. Nevertheless, we are only at the beginning. Many issues—such as the role of women, dealing with abuse, and the inclusiveness of the Church—require deeper exploration. Patience and perseverance are needed, because real change takes time and the courage to ask uncomfortable questions. It is important to emphasise that this is a spiritual process. Therefore—as Pope Francis always stressed, and as Pope Leo has emphasised from the beginning of his pontificate—we can be confident in the guidance of the Holy Spirit on this path. He will lead us along the paths God has determined. God’s will will be fulfilled—but in the time God deems right. This requires humility and trust in God, despite all our commitment and enthusiasm.

– Following the media, one gets the impression that political divisions have somehow infiltrated the Church as well; there is frequent talk of “conservative” and “liberal” currents. What do you think of such assessments, and do they reflect the reality in which the Church currently finds itself?

The Church is part of society, and political divisions do influence it. However, terms such as “conservative” and “liberal” are not appropriate, because they often reflect only the surface of deeper conflicts. In my view, the real challenge is preserving unity in diversity. The Church must create spaces where different opinions can be exchanged respectfully. This is not a struggle for dominance, but a shared struggle for truth and justice. The Church is credible when it builds bridges and promotes dialogue. That is precisely what we must work on.

– What do you see as the main challenges facing the Church during the pontificate of Leo XIV?

The pontificate of Pope Leo XIV stands for continuity and renewal. Among the most important challenges are the promotion of synodality, the renewed addressing of sexual abuse, the reform of administrative structures, and the financial crisis in the Vatican. Leo XIV is committed to transparency, sustainability, and a global Church founded on solidarity. Preserving the unity of the Church without erasing cultural differences is a central task. Equally important is the further strengthening of the participation of women, ecological responsibility, and commitment to peace in a divided world. All the statements he has made so far in the six months of his pontificate point in this direction. I am glad that he is leading the Church firmly in these turbulent times.

– You are the author of two books that portray biblical figures in a somewhat unusual light. As a Church, do we suffer from having turned biblical figures and saints in general into almost wax figures with whom we seem to share little common human nature?

There is indeed a danger that biblical figures and saints become idealised figures who have little to say to people today. In my books, I try to portray these individuals with a good dose of humour in their humanity, but also in their spiritual depth. The Church should strive to tell the stories of saints and biblical figures in such a way that they serve as role models and inspiration for life today. Authenticity and vitality are key so that faith does not become a mere tradition, but a source of renewal and genuine joy in life.

– In your academic career, you taught business ethics at the University of Augsburg. How can faith help Catholics build better and more just relationships in the business world?

Through the social teaching of the Church, the Catholic faith offers a clear ethical framework for economic activity. Principles such as human dignity, the common good, solidarity, and subsidiarity provide guidelines for just relationships in the business world. Faith calls us to place people at the centre and to base economic decisions on the dignity of the individual. Business ethics is not an abstract theory, but a lived practice that is manifested in fair working conditions, social responsibility, and sustainable business practices. For this reason, it must always play a key role in addressing economically questionable practices of individual companies, as well as in relation to legislation and social developments when these run counter to Catholic principles.

– Let us also touch on Renovabis, the foundation you lead, which has supported many Catholic projects in Croatia. What are your priorities when selecting projects to support?

The selection of projects at Renovabis is based on the principle of partnership: we provide support where our local partners need concrete assistance. Priority is given to projects that directly contribute to improving living conditions—especially for children, young people, refugees, and the socially disadvantaged. Pastoral tasks that contribute to the renewal of the Church and the strengthening of civil society are equally important. It is essential to us that projects are sustainable and make a real contribution to reconciliation, justice, and peace. Furthermore, we are convinced that today we must invest more in people and less in bricks and mortar, which is why we support numerous dialogue programmes and also award many scholarships to young people who enrol in academic studies on behalf of their diocese or religious community.

– Which projects over the past 30 years are you particularly proud of?

I am particularly proud of projects that have a lasting impact, such as the Professional Centre for Addiction Prevention in Sarajevo, which has for years played a leading role in preventive work and in strengthening civil society. Worth mentioning are also the numerous assistance measures for children and families in Ukraine who urgently need support in coping with the consequences of war. The promotion of educational and social projects in Moldova, Albania, and Armenia likewise demonstrates how diverse and effective the work of Renovabis is. Every success is a sign of solidarity and hope for the people of Central and Eastern Europe. Renovabis is also strongly committed to assisting refugees in Croatia, particularly through cooperation with the Jesuit Refugee Service (JRS) in Zagreb. There, refugees are cared for, supported, and accompanied in their integration. I am also proud of our cooperation with the Catholic University of Croatia in Zagreb. With the support of Renovabis, for example, it has developed an integration structure that helps people from other cultures feel at home in Croatia.

The text of the interview was taken from the website Bitno.net.